There is no such thing as a commercial drone flight (as far as regulations go, anyway), and financial gain has not been relevant to any type of drone flight since the end of 2020. Before that it determined whether a PfCO was needed, of course.
If you fly under Article 16, any flight must be for “sport, recreation, education or demonstration” purposes. It’s perfectly ok for money to change hands e.g. if it’s a training flight.
In the CAA’s view if your drone flight is for “sport or recreational purposes only” then you don’t require aviation insurance (often described as “commercial” insurance, but it’s not, it’s just general aviation insurance under EC 785/2004). Again, no mention of whether you make financial gain from your flight, which you conceivably could do if outdoor drone racing ever, er, took off. This one has no real basis in law, it’s just some bollocks that the CAA invented in CAP722 because of the shoddy wording of the European insurance regulations (which exempt all model aircraft up to 20kg from the need for aviation insurance, without defining what counts as model aircraft).
The difference there is that Pastafarians claim it has basis in their sincerely held beliefs about organised religion, and by all appearances, that’s true as I have no doubt about the sincerity of the pastafarians I’ve encountered that it’s a manifestation of their beliefs about organised religion. It’s important to note though that they’ve received some limited recognition like you’ve mentioned but their status as a religion hasn’t been tested in court in England and Wales, or in Scotland, to the best of my knowledge, nor do they have a history of making hate incident or hate crime reports on the basis of their status as pastafarians. Since the protected characteristic is “Religion or belief” it’s likely they would be protected as pastafarianism is a manifestation of their sincerely held beliefs about religion, whether it, itself, can in fact be classified as a religion under the law or not.
Now this is all just to say that there is an element of sincerity to pastafarianism that there clearly isn’t in what you’re proposing to do which would be to essentially fraudulently claim to be the victim of a hate incident or hate crime. I can tell you from personal experience that hate crime cases are complex and resource consuming for police to investigate and they’re often overwhelmed with the number of investigations they can actually pursue and a fraudulent report if it isn’t dismissed outright by the police is liable to absorb resources from the kind of case that’s brought to police attention because people take verbal abuse in the street for their religious headdress or get beaten up because they’re thought to be gay. And I’ll leave it there for you to go on to decide whether it’s actually a good idea to pursue what you’re suggesting.
Call 101 and inform them of your flight beforehand so should the NT, or a concerned member of the public decide that a call to the police and an emergency response is needed, the police operator will have record of you activity and can politely inform them that they are aware and that what you are doing is perfectly legal.
Not sure that’s a starter - every time i’ve had to use 101 you end up holding 20-30 minutes then passed around several operators whilst they try to work out who is responsible for what.
Unless its a flight in an actual restricted area that you’ve obtained permission from i dont think pre-informing the police is going to be that useful.
anybody been challenged or have any experience of following through on any challenges?
(sorry trying not to get embroiled in long discussions about if their stance is right or wrong (we are all big boys / women and can take responsibilities for our own actions and decisions in life, good or bad, lawful or unlawful as you or I may see it))
just really interested / curious if anyone has flown over NT / EH land and had any issues and did they follow them through.
only interested in sub 250g drone experience please
I reviewed the link posted from the NT. Yes, it is still out of date as previously stated. Guess updating their website is low priority still; Covid or no Covid.
Honestly I tend to rip a pack or two and be gone. it’s about the adrenaline rush and then I go. So I honestly haven’t had any hassle. But then i’m not driving up to the front door of some stately home and putting my quad up in front of a bunch of their staff. In fact the actual buildings aren’t the star attraction for me, it’s generally the open spaces in the grounds that tend to be quiet and devoid of people.
Same goes for EH. I have flown on/over there land from time to time and it’s pretty much all about when you fly and how much of a bullseye you paint on your back while doing it. If your aim is to get in, grab your footage and get out, or in my case, take off, rip, land, go, then I have had no issue either. The same as above applies though. i tend to fly away from where all the action and people are.
I should probably also mention i only fly sub 250g kit (actually sub 125g kit for the most part) and I tend to operate on a stealth basis, unless I know the place i’m flying is pretty safe and maybe out of the way from places and people. i get in, do what I want to do and be somewhere else shortly afterwards.
which sub 125g do you use (just curious) I’ve got a mobula7 + betafpv hx115 but I’m not big into them the DJI mini 3 pro is sort of idiot proof (for me, let go of the sticks and it just hovers)
Yes, When I replaced me last drone with the mini 3 (as recommended by a lot of GADC members) it was the best decision for me. Once i regained confidence and got a few hours flying under me belt, not only did the blighter fly its self, it had another major advantage for me.
that is it lets me stop and take a break and move around a bit. Being an old git that struggles to get mobile, doing two things at once usually means tripping over. so let go of the sticks and it just hovers, gets a big thumbs up from me…
I have a 2S Beta85, 2-3S CineFlea 85, 2S Nanofly16 clone, 1S Meteor75 and 1S Meteor65 (but converting to a LoS only quad that can be thrown in a bag with a small radio). That are currently in the sub 125g range. The Cine8 is very borderline depending on the battery used, it’s just heavy but fun.
Mainly I fly the Nanofly and Beta85 when I’m out and about. Both are small enough to not attract attention, while still being fast enough to get the heart racing.
But I also carry the Meteor 75 in my van, because you can fly it pretty much anywhere. For example, if I’m in an empty car park somewhere I might get it out and rip a pack while I sit in my van or if I’m out in the middle of nowhere. It’s not a high flyer. I tend to go no more than 10m high with it, so not going to be hitting anything, except maybe the odd lampost. It’s just a fun little thing that I spent about 20 mins putting together.
The only place i’ve heard about people having issues with is the Longshaw Estate, which is fairly close to me. But people that fly over it seem to launch from far away. I also know a few fly FPV at or over it too. But the staff seem to have a hard on for people flying drones there. I tend not to bother as there are way better spots up towards Stannage that you never have any hassle at.
Fly over any Nat Trust property at your own risk. They have a nation wide ban on all flights taking off from and landing on any property and any land they own. This can include any farms that are part of their very extensive property portfolio.
Do the slightest element of damage to even a few plants and they will sue your a**se off.
How do I know? I have been a NT member for over 50 and I also worked as a contractor on NT property for 40 years and I know what they are like .
Yes you can take off from and land from outside their domain BUT be very sure you know exactly where their boundaries are.
Yes you have the legal right to overfly NT property but be warned the NT have very deep pockets and are not afraid the throw their weight about.
Flying Shroppie
National Trust has been done to death in other general topics. Some of us will happily annoy them by overflying. Hence the OP is worded in such a way to ensure people take caution.
I assume it’s why there’s a specific NT category to add places under in dronescene and their boundaries are included. They say we can’t. We know we can when taking off and landing legally.
This one certainly a bit more cautious a TOAL location but as the site is nothing extraordinary (in my opinion) and quite large you can be up and gone before anyone will even find you. Hopefully.
Yes. I have seen them do it quite a few times. This was one.I was working on a property… near Leominster. The gardeners had parked a tractor and trailer trapping an electricians van in while they had their afternoon break. The sparky tried to get out and in the process backed over a bush (one of about 50-60 of the same species in the path) The gardeners trimmed it back but didn’t replace it.
At the next site meeting we (the main contractor) were charged £700 for its “replacement”, which was rich considering they did not replace it at all. If they had needed one they could have done from their own nursery.
It was a straight forward case of claiming £700 off the main bill.
This was only one incident in a whole list.
Sorry I misunderstood. I have no knowledge of any court cases. However 18 months ago, I was flying my drone close to Benthal Hall, Broseley, Shrops and I was confronted by a Nat Trust employee who claimed I was not allowed to fly any where near NT property. I am now in my 80’s and found his atitude most threatening. However when I said I was going to call the police because of the threats he was making he backed right off.
Virtually all of NT staff have no idea what the legal position is. Last year I wrote to the NT Regional Director offering to speak to a meeting of thier staff to explain the legal position. Not suprisingly I did not even get an acknowledgement of my letter. I guess it was so that they could claim I never wrote to them.
To the best of my knowledge the NT have never actually taken anyone to court. They rely on vaque threats and a bullying attitude.
BUT if you have the misfortune to have your drone come down on any bit of thier property they are within thier rights to seize it. They will eventually have to give it back but they will certainly claim you have damaged something at a huge cost.
As I said previously I worked as a Contract Manager to the NT for forty years and have been a member for over fifty years so I am speaking with some knowledge of how they think.
Flying Shroppie
Definately the case for flying from or landing in NT Grounds. They are protected by byelaws and permission is needed to launch etc, though they can’t stop overfliying. English Heritage website says the same and that that if you want permission, it will be treated as some kind of venue hire (= expensive). As a new owner, not done either but didnt realise that NT would be so paranoid as they own huge chunks of Derbyshire.
Is Peak District National Park also “off limits” as site seems to suggest so, but there is loads of drone footage and as its near me, was on my list of places to practice
LOL).
It’s just a fun little thing that I spent about 20 mins putting together.