Remote ID - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - Everything you need to know

Legal & Privacy
89

I think rid has already happened in Japan (and china?.. but they monitor everything… let’s avoid that politics one or we will end up with the Chinese state crashing the site!)

so… does anyone know why it keeps getting delayed in the US? (I know it’s a big country… probably need loads of rid detectors over ever sq mile). anything else? other than general resistance

the problem in the UK (always!!) is they always want something different to every where else too… so RID in the US will not be the same in the UK or EU…

the quickest and cheapest way to implement anything is just to copy and paste what others do… yes the UK rid may end up being absolutely brilliant… but the pareto principle means getting that last 20% to brilliant is absolutely expensive and takes a shed load of time

90

Last thing I see on this or read was, if I can remember rightly the drones that are not capable of transmitting RID through a firmware update or self builds, apparently it was to allow more time for manufactures to produce / make the RID transmitters that you have to purchase & fix to your drone, unless this has changed for another reason now, this was the last I see on why it has been delayed, someone may know better.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-extends-remote-id-enforcement-date-six-months

91

I’m very surprised the US citizens are okay with RID at all enough to be ahead of us here.
It to me, feels somewhat ‘unconstitutional’.

Having lived there for three years, it seems to go very much against their very being in principle.
Allowing ‘the man’ to spy on you.

Considering the fact that they don’t believe in speed cameras, CCTV outside in the streets, or ANPR cameras for example.

92

at least the FAA are honest about RID intentions

Remote ID acts like a digital license plate and will help the FAA, law enforcement, and other federal agencies find the control station when a drone appears to be flying in an unsafe manner or where it is not allowed to fly.

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93

I don’t think many are ok with rid… they just follow the rules

94

I was wondering when this topic came up the other day, although we are the UK & different to the USA & I know are thoughts are very down tempo on the RID malarkey, I guess when it does go live in the states, maybe we will see if & what problems it may cause within the public or maybe just not work as expected ( wishful thinking ) then maybe that might give us a bit more of an inclination to panic more or panic less & what is maybe to come or may not, not sure just a thought :thinking:

95

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=usa+remote+id+protest

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96

think that protest was from 29th Feb 2020… not seemed to help rid though :confused:

I’d like to see where the police are going to get money for the drone squad for in order to chase around every time a drone without rid or a spoofed rid pops up on some monitoring system…

97

X Jet on YouTube ( Bruce Simpson) from New Zealand, is doing a video on the UK’s CAA proposals soon

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98

here is a good one… 7 rid modules on 1 drone… check the signal divergence…

around 7.21

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99

I think it must be made clear that RID has absolutely nothing to do with the integration of recreational and commercial drone use into the national airspace. Nor has it anything to do with safety or security. If any of these arguments were to hold water then we would see mandatory electronic conspicuity for everything that is capable of sustained flight. Hot Air and Weather Balloons, gliders, microlites, fireworks. hang-gliders, paragliders, and others, which currently have no legal requirement to make their presence known, especially to the general public, by means of electronic conspicuity. So what differentiates the use of recreational multirotor type model aircraft from other forms of flight? The fact is that all the examples I have listed have caused death or serious injury many times over every year, and have been the method to commit serious crime and terrorist acts. The use of recreational drone technology on the other hand has had the misfortune to have been vilified for column inches, and at the height of it’s popularity was speculated to be a cash cow, both by Governments and Venture Capitalists lobbying for preferential opportunities.

How can something be an aid to security when its own security is so flawed and lacking? It has been more than ably demonstrated that the current standard for RID is wide open for abuse using the most basic of equipment. If I want to shut Gatwick down during the busy Christmas period all I need do is spoof a RID transmission and
three days of chaos and economic turmoil will ensue. Back in 2018 it was simply done by someone misidentifying some distant lights on a construction crane.

The argument that RID will prevent the misuse of recreational drone technology and help authorities identify “bad actors” is complete BS. We’ve all seen how gun crime has now been eradicated from UK shores since the banning of handgun ownership from lawful shooting enthusiasts? Strange how you don’t have to register blank firing pistols, CO2 powered replica pistols, even though they have been used daily to commit very serious violent crime. However if you happen to hover a toy drone with a take-off mass of 250grams or more, three feet above your patio, you will be subject to the authorities running around with their hair on fire, and logged as a “drone crime” on police statistics,

I’ve been trying to make things fly before the days it was discovered that you could cannibalise the rudimentary tech in a Nintendo num-chuk controller to make a fairly stable multirotor. Back then we posed as much of a threat as someone who identified as a Jedi Master. But after the imaginary alien invasion that took place at Gatwick Airport in December of 2018 it seems the authorities watched a bunch of Gerard Butler movies, thinking they were documentaries and CNN breaking news, and feverishly broke out the crayons to write some of the most irrelevant and destructive legislation.

5 Likes
100

I simply cannot for the life of me see any security risk with a sub 250gm drone, that isn’t already covered by the Security Act anyway ( and even that act is flawed ) Under this new act, it will be illegal to fly over certain buildings, or even vehicles, but, they don’t have to even display notices telling you that it’s illegal to fly over them. So if say MI5 have a “safe house” in the countryside, you could fall foul of this law by simply flying near it. They don’t even state what the distance is. It could be anything from 100m to 1km. Ridiculous situation.

101

I was just watching on YouTube geeksvana, about the consultation on the new document & his responses, might be worth watching it, then again it may not, it states all these other new possible rules, a document like the one when we done the call for input, it states about the RID etc.

102

Two thoughts recently:

Presumably an ‘offence’ captured by RID would be subject to a 6 month statute of limitations? Similar to speeding for example?

Also, another thought. At the moment, some police forces in the UK are hesitant to install new speed cameras or employ additional mobile speed camera vans, because an increase in the number of speeding tickets will also increase the number of people opting to take their case to court, and the UK court system is near enough at it’s limits.

Presumably therefore, it would not be feasible for an automated system for prosecuting drone operators using RID because I would like to think you would have the option to contest and there is no way the court system or the CAA could handle that number of contests?

103

Most speed enforcement cameras and mobile vans are run by a ‘safety camera partnership’. They are funded by the number of people taking the speed awareness courses.
Most safety camera partnerships have been disbanded because that cannot afford to run, maintain and calibrate their systems. The systems have been through a vigorous home office approval process before being used for prosecution.
I wonder how anyone will be able to afford to install any equipment that is in anyway close to being able to support a prosecution from an evidential standpoint?
Is your drones altitude sensors calibrated? Is the GPS system of your phone or controller calibrated?
I really can’t see how this will work!

104

The running of the cameras is one thing, but ultimately if you receive a ticket from one you’re entitled to go to court to defend it. So for every X number of tickets they issue, they have to ensure the courts can support Y percentage of those tickets going to court. Therefore there is a theoretical limit to how many speed tickets can be issued (hence why some cameras are turned off periodically).

I would have thought the same would go for drones? If they introduce RID, they can’t just start throwing out automated fines for every breach of VLOS and airspace as that would place a HUGE burden on the courts.

Because as I have mentioned above, and you also just alluded to, the evidence would be circumstantial at best. The GPS and barometer are not calibrated in any way, there is also the chance you could have had permission to fly in a restricted zone, and with regards to VLOS - you can’t just indiscriminately place a distance on what is considered VLOS.

edit: just checked CAP 722 and using multiple observers is considered ELOS and falls under the specific category and is treated basically the same as BVLOS.

105

I don’t think rid would be used for direct or automatic prosecution, it would be used as evidence as part of another primary crime.

similar to this one, the GPS evidence was just use as a tool for the bigger offences

https://greyarro.ws/t/the-trial-of-britains-most-notorious-speeder/71530?u=robertspark

trying to put 2+2 together and come up with 5… the problem is they have to prove that the rid was YOU and not someone else, so they would need to use mobile phone tower data too… and try to verify that with ANPR data… so they would need other supporting evidence.

I just cannot see this being of any use as again it’s likely to be used for the most serious of crimes. (time and cost to obtain all the other evidence plus put it before a court)… plus the people doing the crimes are Fxxxwits, if they use a drone with rid, and deserve to be in prison… like using your own car or car with your own registration plate for a crime… or taking your mobile phone on a planned crime… at least if you leave the phone at home you now have an alibi… phone never left home mobile phone location…

if you got a speeding fine (and you knew it wasn’t you!) how would you contest it and expect the prosecution to prove it was you beyond reasonable doubt… a photograph with a numberplate is just 1 piece of evidence really… and if everything relies on a photograph of a very common car in a very common colour with a numberplate (akin to rid?) the case really is skating on some thin ice… only one piece of evidence that anyone could alter or make or obtain in minutes…! (or spoof in the case of rid)

106

I agree xjet :+1:

https://x.com/xjet/status/1740480849475441003?s=46&t=7nuR0Nu7cnhx87rFEia6eQ

1 Like
107

I read this, and just… How can I retrospectively fit RID on a tinywhoop, which I use indoors, and outdoors, without making it fly like a potato (or more likely the mini potato/avata). What will the cost be for all my drones? Why is A-DBS (whatever the system is I know I got that wrong) not mandated for all GA?! It’s the network and long term storage that just worries me the most tbh… OK, they might not make that publicly available to start, but over time they might do with a subscription to make more money, slowly boiling the frog. The US system AKAIK doesn’t have the network part, just the local broadcast part.

It won’t take long for the non flying public who have been groomed to dislike drones (strange how they OK with the planes, but not drones…) to work out the RID apps, and yeah give abuse to the pilots out of the way of people and buildings.

It might make people who just buy a mini from argos and fly it irresponsibly from doing just that, but I don’t know the size of that issue. As we all know, no one has been killed by a recreational drone/quadcopter (well let’s not count Ukraine, etc), so accidentally…

Let’s mandate live broadcast/storage of all information for all cars/vehicles, let’s put something in dogs food (or maybe just take a DNA sample from all dogs), so we can identify the owners who leave poop across the country, injuring children… I dunno…

This hobby which I don’t do as much as I want to (mainly due to weather), I love it when I do, but when I read this, and I wanna sell the lot tbh, everytime I go through an RID thread, or see a video I feel the same. How are kids going to get into the hobby (I know it’s expensive, so probably need a parent who has an interest too), but this is just crazy. I loved making balsa planes as a kid (and OK they’d be exempt from RID), and flew ESTES rockets, but I bet your bottom dollar if I was a kid today and discovered FPV, I 'd beg and beg and save my mum and dad to at least get a small tinywhoop! I guess non camera planes are expempt, but the FPV ones won’t be… pffft… wheres the for sale thread again…

2 Likes
108

I’ve locked it :smile: see you tomorrow :+1: