Stanner Rocks, Near Kington, Powys

Questions & Answers
1

Hi, I have been asked to photograph Stanner Woods just inside the Welsh side of the Welsh/Herefordshire border. I need permission from the Natural Resources Wales to do this.

I have fill in a multi screen form and I think it looks like I will have to pay a fee too.

Has anyone flown at Stanner Rocks and how did they get permission from Natural Resources Wales?

Many thanks Keith

2

Is this a commercial job? Or a hobbyist flight?

3

There doesn’t seem to be anything coming up on Drone Scene regarding flight restrictions, why are you asking permission?

4

Hi

It is a SSI site and is in Wales and apparently they have different rules to England so Natural Resources Wales told me when I emailed them a few days ago and sent me a link to complete an on line form.

Many thanks

5

Hi it is a hobbyist flight. Many thanks

6

It’s a SSI because of:
Stanner Rocks NNR is the only location in Britain where the Early Star-of-Bethlehem (Gagea bohemica) - also known as the Radnor Lily -can be found.
Welsh law and English law are the same, Scotland is different. You can legally fly there without permission.

2 Likes
7

Hello Speedbird, thank you for your advice. Much appreciated. Keith

8

Hello Everyone,

I went back to Natural Resources Wales and they have told me that hobbyist drone operators have to pay them to fly a drone on their land and take photos.

£55 for a day if your drone footage is in support of their environmental credentials or £310 if not.

Link showing costs:

In addition you need these credentials:

Sustainable production principles

You must work in accordance with the Sustainable Production Principles and hold a BAFTA Albert Certification. You must make sure an Environmental Management System is in place that is proportionate to the scale of your operation.

If these are not in place, we reserve the right to add a 5-10% surcharge. The price would be subject to commercial negotiation.

This applies to all SSI sites in Wales.

So I have decided not to bother as this is becoming expensive and as a hobbyist I don’t have sustainable credentials or BMFA Albert credentials.

Thank you to all for support and advice.

Keith (A very disappointed drone operator with A2 C of C)

9

Hi Keith,

That link is for commercial use, it’s not for Hobbist flights

Natural Resources Wales has no control over the airspace, the CAA does and there are no restrictions

Just go and fly your drone mate

1 Like
10

Hello Sparkyws,

Thank you for your prompt reply and support. I really appreciate it.

The person I am dealing with in Natural Resources Wales knows I am a hobbyist and that there is no commercial work involved or gain from my hobbyist photos.

However he has told me their rules cover everyone with a drone irrespective of their hobbyist or commercial status and applies to all SSSI sites in Wales.

I looked again at Drone Assist app for this location but that does not help me.

So as pensioner is of 72 years of age and 5 years of drone ops (3 years PFCO and 2 A2 C of C) I have decided it is not worth the battle with NRW that I foresee coming up. Sorry if I sound like a defeatist. I am not. However at my age I have come across situations in the past where I have a better than 50% chance of winning people over. I feel in this case with NRW this will not happen. It is not a big deal for me. Just something to learn from.

Once again thank you for your support and to all others who have supported me in Grey Arrows.

Keith

11

Can you please share that information?

12

Here you are:

Good morning Mr Lawton,

Thank you for contacting Natural Resources Wales (NRW).

Yes, you would. This is because you’ll be conducting an activity on NRW and will require permission from us to do this. Please complete the "Filming on our land" form.

You can see further information here: Natural Resources Wales / Filming and photography costs

Kind regards,

Alex Homer

Cymorth Cyswllt Cyfoeth / Customer Hub Support
Cwsmeriaid, Cyfathrebu a Masnachol/Customer, Communications and Commercial Directorate
Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru/Natural Resources Wales
Ffôn/Tel: 0300 065 3000

Gwefan / Website:http://www.cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk//[www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk](http://www.naturalresourceswales.gov.uk/)
Twitter:twitter.com/NatResWales
Facebook: facebook.com/nNatResWales
Flickr: Flickr.com/NatResWales
Youtube: youtube.com/NatResWales

Cyd-arweinydd Calon :: Rhwydwaith LHDT+ / Calon :: LGBT+ Network Co-lead ️‍

Yn falch o arwain y ffordd at ddyfodol gwell i Gymru trwy reoli’r amgylchedd ac adnoddau naturiol yn gynaliadwy.
Proud to be leading the way to a better future for Wales by managing the environment and natural resources sustainably.

Croesewir gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a byddwn yn ymateb yn Gymraeg, heb i hynny arwain at oedi
Correspondence in Welsh is welcomed, and we will respond in Welsh without it leading to a delay
Dysgwyr Cymraeg

------------------- Original Message -------------------
From: Admin Removed
Received: Tue Aug 01 2023 10:09:19 GMT+0100 (British Summer Time)
To: Enquiries Queue enquiries@cyfoethnaturiolcymru.gov.uk;
Subject: Re: Stanner Rocks near Kington Herefordshire NRW:00896552

Rhybudd: Deilliodd yr e-bost hwn o’r tu allan i’r sefydliad. Peidiwch â chlicio dolenni nac atodiadau agored oni bai eich bod yn cydnabod yr anfonwr ac yn gwybod bod y cynnwys yn ddiogel.

Caution: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

Dear Mr Homer,

Thank you for your email of 21 July.

I have looked at the online web form you have directed me to. From reading it, I am under the impression it is an application form for a commercial film crew to apply on.

Therefore, as I am an amateur drone operator who flies as a hobby, do I still need to complete the form you referred too? All I looking to do is keep within the law for this SSSI and take some aerial photos?

I would welcome your guidance….

Many thanks

Keith Lawton

1 Like
13

Thanks, Keith, I removed your email address :wink:

That letter and advice are wrong, they have no jurisdiction to stop you from flying and filming as a hobbyist

From what I can gather there are no Bylaws in place either

Flying a drone is governed by the CAA and as there are no restrictions in place you can fly their

If you hadn’t contacted them and just gone and flown, what do you think would have happened?

and it illegal to use a camera or a phone to record on their land?

1 Like
14

Hello Sparkyws,

Thank you for all the links and information. Very helpful.

I know now what the current situation is, so I can now do some more planning.

Best wishes,
Keith

3 Likes
15

Let us know how you get on and I can’t wait to see the photos :wink:

16

A really useful thread. I live in the lower Wye valley and keen to do plenty of flying around here. Very new to this hobby and was a little concerned that Natural Resources Wales website is still saying you need permission to operate on their land. I was thinking all the great spots I was hoping to use were now out of bounds but this thread seems to have suggested otherwise.

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17

I’d imagine they could restrict take off and landing in their land but apart from that I think they are havering, are they not?

1 Like
18

My understanding is that you are fine to overfly anywhere except the red and blue zones on Drone Scene maps so long as you fly within the CAA’s Drone Code rules. A landowner or manager can of course prevent you accessing his/her land or, if access is allowed, from TOAL from it; in Wales, this includes Welsh Water and CADW sites.

There are many examples of bodies like NRW who say that you are not allowed to fly on their land, when what they mean in practice is that you are not allowed to TOAL. But you can (and many of us do) TOAL from outside their land and overfly it, so long as you are not flying over crowds or BVLOS, which is the same rule as anywhere else. This includes the yellow zones on DS maps, ground hazards of which you must be aware but are not restricted from flying over.

The CAA ‘owns’ UK airspace, whoever owns tge land under it.

19

@TheJohnster please don’t reference colours as guidance, it’s quite misleading, especially in this example where even Class D airspace is red.

Map layer colours might change in a future update, but the airspace types won’t :slight_smile:

2 Likes
20
  1. Much better to beg forgiveness than ask permission
  2. Unless you TOAL on their land you are not flying on their land. You may be flying over their land, and as others have said, they have no jurisdiction over the airspace. Like some other organisations (I’m looking at you, Dwr - Welsh Water) they are just trying it on.
  3. If you were challenged, what are they actually going to do about it? They could try to sue you for damages (for trespass) but would (a) be very unlikely to succeed (see 2 above) and (b) in the unlikely event that they were successful, the damages awarded would be likely to be less than the charges they are proposing.
  4. See 1.

Actually, I quite fancy flying there now :slightly_smiling_face:

2 Likes