EASA ruling regarding C0 marked, sub-250g drones and the EU 120m height restriction

Legal & Privacy
101

Here’s the TL;DR response from DJI:

On 5 Nov 2023, at 17:16, Sofia (DJI Support) support@dji.com wrote:

Your request（#XXXXXXX）has been updated, please reply the email below.

Sofia (DJI Support)

Nov 6, 2023, 01:16 GMT+8

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting DJI Technical Support. I hope you are doing well.

Just to let you know, when the customer returns to the UK or goes to another country, not under the EASA rules, the drone doesn’t have the 120m maximum altitude.

And the full email thread for context:

Click to expand

Grey Arrows Drone Club

Nov 4, 2023, 23:22 GMT+8

Hello DJI,

You recently published this viewpoints article: The DJI Mini Series And The 120m Altitude Limit In The EU

If a Mini 4 Pro owner living in the UK goes on holiday to a EASA-regulated country their drone will be limited to 120m above the take off point.

When they return to the UK, or go to another country which is NOT under the EASA rules, will the drone still be limited to 120m maximum altitude? Or will it be able to fly without the 120m restriction?

And will this still be the case after 1 January 2024?

Sofia (DJI Support)

Nov 5, 2023, 00:42 GMT+8

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting DJI Technical Support. We hope that everything is going very well with you.

We value your business with us and we thank you so much for showing your interest, support, and continued patronage of our company. We will be delighted to assist you in this matter and help you get to the bottom of the concern as quickly as possible.

We understand that you have the following concerns. Therefore, allow us to confirm it with our respective team first. Rest assured that we will get back to you again once receive any feedback from them. Your patience and understanding on this issue are greatly appreciated.

  • If a Mini 4 Pro owner living in the UK goes on holiday to an EASA-regulated country their drone will be limited to 120m above the take-off point.
  • When they return to the UK or go to another country that is NOT under the EASA rules, will the drone still be limited to 120m maximum altitude? Or will it be able to fly without the 120m restriction?
  • And will this still be the case after 1 January 2024?

In the meantime, if assistance is still required before we reach back out, feel free to reply to this email, we’ll be glad to help you out.

Thank you for choosing DJI and have a great day.

Best regards,
Sofia
DJI Technical Support

Grey Arrows Drone Club

Nov 5, 2023, 00:52 GMT+8

We look forward to your response, thank you.

Grey Arrows Drone Club
Unity House, Westwood Park, Wigan, WN3 4HE
https://GreyArro.ws
https://DroneScene.co.uk

Sofia (DJI Support)

Nov 5, 2023, 19:57 GMT+8

Dear Customer,

Greetings from DJI Technical Support. I hope you are doing great so far!

Thank you for patiently waiting. We received feedback from our respective team today. Please find below.

  • If a Mini 4 Pro owner living in the UK goes on holiday to an EASA-regulated country their drone will be limited to 120m above the take-off point. Yes

  • When they return to the UK or go to another country that is NOT under the EASA rules, will the drone still be limited to 120m maximum altitude? Unfortunately, no.

  • Or will it be able to fly without the 120m restriction? No cannot.

  • And will this still be the case after 1 January 2024? Yes. For more information, you may refer to this article The DJI Mini Series And The 120m Altitude Limit In The EU

We look forward to situating closure to every inquiry you have, as our goal is to contribute to help in every doable way we can. We thank you for your time and support and if there is anything else we can do for you, feel free to let us know. We will be happy to assist you.

Thank you for choosing DJI and have a great day.

Best regards,
Sofia
DJI Technical Support

Grey Arrows Drone Club

Nov 5, 2023, 20:26 GMT+8

Hello,

Answer 2 and 3 conflict with each other.

Could you seek full clarification please?

Sofia (DJI Support)

Nov 6, 2023, 01:16 GMT+8

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting DJI Technical Support. I hope you are doing well.

Just to let you know, when the customer returns to the UK or goes to another country, not under the EASA rules, the drone doesn’t have the 120m maximum altitude.

I hope I could shed some light on this for you. Of course, if you have any other questions, feel free to reach out and I’ll be happy to answer them for you. I want to make sure you’re fully taken care of and I’m only an email away.

Please know that the system will automatically send out a notification if no reply is received within 2 days. But you can just simply ignore it if you don’t have any other inquiries. You can continue replying when you get time and if you have further questions, then the ticket will appear back in our view. Please don’t worry as it won’t affect the progress of your inquiry.

Thank you for choosing DJI and have a great day.

Best regards,
Sofia
DJI Technical Support

7 Likes
102

sorted!

if you come back to the UK… and the drone doesn’t unlock… because everyone thinks we are in the EU but not in the EU (hate to be in a country like Switzerland or one of the boarderline areas!)

then I was thinking if there was a way to broadcast a fake GPS signal to the drone which would reset it.

a couple of years ago I was trying to fly a drone in a ceiling void and came across GPS repeater devices (of no use to a drone application in a ceiling void) that could be used to keep gps’ that are located indoors live and update their location ( think ambulance or fire appliance parked under cover that reports it’s location back to a central station… if it looses it’s GPS signal it may not know what to report back to the control centre… this may not be a problem if it remains turned on and it just reports it’s last known location but if it’s turned off and back on it may not know what to report until it has a revised lock.

my thought was that maybe a device could be built that may give a fake GPS location (or locations from a number of satellites) which could be made to reset the drone… this would make no difference outside but inside a house it may work as a fix? or reset

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:wink:. :man_dancing: :star_struck:

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105

EU, Liechtenstein, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are covered by the EASA.

@robertspark See above!

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106

That is interesting

  • Austria
  • Belgium
  • Bulgaria
  • Croatia
  • Cyprus
  • Czechia
  • Denmark
  • Estonia
  • Finland
  • France
  • Germany
  • Greece
  • Hungary
  • Iceland
  • Ireland
  • Italy
  • Latvia
  • Liechtenstein
  • Lithuania
  • Luxembourg
  • Malta
  • Netherlands
  • Norway
  • Poland
  • Portugal
  • Romania
  • Slovakia
  • Slovenia
  • Spain
  • Sweden
  • Switzerland

funny thing is Jersey + Gurnsey are EASA too! (I’ve not been but I’m guessing they are relatively flat? and won’t be disappointed that they cant go up any mountain sides… but are fine to fly off a mountaintop

Guernsey Airport achieves EASA certification in under a year | Guernsey Airport.

I guess that also may mean that greenland is included too (being part of Denmark).
And maybe also:

  • Greenland and Faroe Islands
  • French Polynesia
  • French Southern & Antarctic Territories
  • New Caledonia and Dependencies
  • Wallis and Futuna Islands
  • Saint Pierre and Miquelon
  • Aruba
  • Bonaire
  • Curaçao
  • Saba
  • Saint-Barthélemy
  • Saint Eustatius
  • Sint Maarten (part of the island that forms part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands)

I’ll watch this space pull up the popcorn :popcorn: and see what happens in Jan 24…

could be a lot of people upset as not everywhere is flat

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Remote ID :man_shrugging:t2:

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This makes sense, and is what I’d expect, despite being told it would stay in place. I just can’t see how you could be permanently penalised for visiting an easa country.

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111

No, agreed, even the sound of it was utterly bonkers.

It’d be like CE mode staying in place if you took your drone from the UK over to the USA.

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We also asked DJI separately via X / Twitter.

Their response was the same:

the flight altitude will not be limited anymore when you return to the UK, going to another country that is not under the EASA rules.

https://x.com/djisupport/status/1721331402384588890

3 Likes
114

remote ID wont be unique… think about it if one has built a done and needed to add RID onto it you would use the same device on a number of other devices too.

I suspect it will be a bit like ADS-B where you could programme the RID into the device (also means that the device could be cloned too).

Ok, I appreciate that with DJI products it may work on the devices serial number.

But I have an interesting sinario too… if you fly a M3P with the goggles 2 it asks you (but you don’t have to) register your drone to the goggles… I’m not sure which RID it would issue in this case as I use my same goggles 2 with an avata, a DJI FPV and m3Pro AND at least 1 DJI O3 air unit for a wing… I have an intention to get (at least) another DJI O3 air unit for other drones … pick your RID tag…

I would have thought that RID will more than likley use your operator ID… that way who knows what you are actually flying… but you are registered.

likewise I’ve got a couple of high illumnance lights that I may choose to add to the M3P using velcro… I’ve also got a wide angle lens and although I don’t have one I could purchase an extended flight time battery, and also a set of prop guards for the M3Pro. Who / how is anyone actually going to know if i’m under or over 249g when i’m actually flying, RID or not.

Like a vehicle driver I am responsible for the vehicle that is under my control… same as being a pilot of a UAV I am responsible that I fly in appropriate locations, don’t do things that are unacceptable (morally or legally) and accept the consequences should something go wrong and it is due to negligence on my part.

If you read the guidance here really the labeling is all up to you as the operator to be resonsible for whether you are flying where you are flying it. Yes “if a done is marketed (advertised) in the EU then it must carry the appropriate label” that does not mean that you cannot buy a drone from elsewhere outside of the EU, but a manufacturer or retailer cannot sell one in the EU without the appropriate sticker being applied {just apply the sticker, and sell it FFS!}

There is also an interesting bit on home built drones too

interesting the “and the maximum speed is less than 19 m/s” limitation… I cannot see many home built drones applying with that one… 19m/se = 42.5mph = 68.2kph.

treat it a bit like a speed limit… sure it’s a limit but you are the responsible pilot (or driver), if you exceed the speed limit accept the consequences of your actions. Those consequences need to be proportionate to the infringement.

its about being a grown up.

do you want to be nannied (i.e. everything has a fail safe that prevents you from doing anything untoward) or do you wish to live a life where you are able to make your own choices as to how YOU see the risks and issues (as they are made apparent or become apparent to you) and accept those consequences as a grown up if everything goes pear-shaped.

next someone will say that we can ONLY buy DJI drones as those are the only ones with C0 markings… really … that’s a bit anti-competitive? I’m sure that their is an EU rule against European Union competition law - Wikipedia.

I wonder why everyone gets so bothered by all of this labelling etc.

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@robertspark

Don’t get me wrong, I generally agree with you in much of what you say; my concern is whether a declassified M4P becomes a legacy drone under EASA regulations and can be operated in the A1 category in 2024, or whether the declassification means it ends up being within the A3 category?

Lots of YT’s are suggesting declassification, but I’m merely trying to establish the situation then it doesn’t go pear shaped by merely following some YT’s unconfirmed suggestion!

Cheers, Dave.

116

Further clarification from DJI today:

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117

This is a very fair point. I’ve been speaking with Sean a lot on this very point because apparently the regulations are there for either outcome to be possible. The fact that a drone had a classification label means it’s technically not a legacy drone, even if it’s declassified before the end of this year.
Apparently the rules are not clear enough for even EASA to confirm either way, as whilst the rule about declassifying a C0 model are clear enough for anything done next year, they don’t cover what happens if that declassification happened before 01-01-24.
In practice, I can’t see how any enforcement can take place on a model that doesn’t have a C label. DJI have stated that all models sold from next year will have a non-removable label…

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£54 day trip on Le Shuttle

Got to be worth a test for one of the YT’ers to end the argument once and for all.

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I was hoping all the confirmation directly from DJI would have ended any rumours.

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Think of the clicks though with a day trip ;o)

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No matter how you pitch it, we’re still not paying for you to go abroad for “research” purposes :blush:

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There is currently a FR off the coast of France covering the whole of the Channel Islands specifically restricting drones to 50m (164ft).

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oh well I tried… I thought they would be surprised they were not under UK / CAA regulations but under the easa…

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just keep doing what I’m doing till someone slaps a fine on me and I’ll take up another hobby…

if it makes anyone happier I’m happy to use my laser cutter to etch a C0 permanent label on their drone…

has anyone read up on UKCA or CE markings… what a farce! it’s all down to self declaration… so I own a business in Asia… what hope do you think anyone has of suing a company that is found to have falsely labelled a product for sale in the EU or China… same with C0 etc labelling… don’t put your faith in any label. and as the easa say the pilot is responsible for what they fly and where they fly it regardless of the label .

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“So for me, we really need somebody to go and visit Europe with their mini 4 Pro, fly, then come back and see if the 120m cap remains in place”

I am going to Ireland (Republic of) in two weeks. If anyone wants to send me their Mini3/Mini4 to get conclusive answers I shall be happy to oblige :grin: