I’m not being critical or judgemental here, just pointing out that should the worst happen and it ends up in a court, said employer is likely to get laughed out of court 
1 Like
As I understand it (I have no experience of the law apart from standing in the dock) if Janice flew her drone over the fields capturing images on her day off and then handed them to the farmer she is a hobbyist. No PfCo needed
If the farmer then says “You’ve been really helpful, have a pound of spuds,” she is receiving payment or paqyment in kind for her work. PfCO needed
If she is employed as an accountant and flies on her employer’s behalf I would suggest that she is doing PfCO work. PfCo needed
If she flies on her day off, the farmer says thanks, no PfCO needed. If the farmer drops a pound of spuds around her house a few days later for no apparent reason … is that the reward for work that needed a PfCO?
It will all change soon anyway and we will have a whole new set of rules (theoretically more sensible) to work with and argue about 
2 Likes
Think you’ve answered your own hypothetical there… 
Also, even if it’s not during working hours and Janice just turned up at work on Monday and ‘donated’ some survey work she’d done in her own time over the weekend, I would (personally) still be careful - wouldn’t be hard for the CAA to make the argument that she could reasonably expect some kind of benefit (doesn’t need to be financial): a more favourable quarterly review, top of the list come promotion time (or bottom of the list come redundancy time), etc.
I quite agree, Janice ought to give’em the V is they start taking the piss.
Although, I have a friend who is employed as his companies IT man, but who does the plumbing, painting and general maintenance around the office. Including various sky installations and pool cleaning chores at his boss’e properties…but thats definitely another story. 
It was a scenario I wanted to throw in there. I kinda knew the answer but wasnt certain.
What if Janice kindly donated the photos / videos which she took in her own time without asking but felt as an employee that her employer needed to see it. ?
and she happened to be the companies high flyer with an expected payrise coming anyway?!
HAAAHAAA…We could go on all day 
Ok Ok…so basically yes, if youre in the role of drone flying for a living (or part living!) whether outsourced working 10 hours a week or in fulltime employment. A PfCO is required. Got it! 
And it’s one the CAA probably won’t be too interested in.
Unless he’s using a drone for any of it 
1 Like
I dont think ‘Pool cleaning’ is on their radar just yet! LOL #giveittime
Although my friend does have an M2Z and im sure as soon as his boss hears he’ll be ‘employed’ in his own spare time to donate any promotional photos of his hotels for zero financial gain
Nothing for me to say other than I enjoyed my popcorn reading that…
1 Like
ONLY if, at the time the flight was planned and commenced, this reward was the intention or expectation.
You cannot retrospectively reclassify a genuine hobby flight into a commercial flight.
This is how it’s possible, legally, for a hobbyist to sell what he’s taken when approached, after the event, by someone wishing to make use of it.
There are several instances where GADC members have done so.
If someone, as a hobbyist, plans a flight and so much as considers the possibility of getting reward, in any form, this classifies the flight as commercial.
4 Likes
Thanks for the clarification. Just shows that the definition of commercial operations is a pain. Roll on the new regulations!
I would’nt expect a magic wand to be waved when they come!.
Ok, im stringing it out a bit.
So had my Father in law after I handed him the photos happened to make me cup of tea or got me a beer after suggesting ‘I deserved it’ then I’d need a PfCO.?
Blimey, I know that this scenario wouldnt play out legitimately but officially, a PfCO would be needed.
Good lord. #FineLines
That would be a “Mavic wand”
1 Like
Oh very good! Bravo 
Just this …
1 Like
nice one Dave, missed that trick !.
Well indeed. I was asked to do it by my Father in law although no financial gains or otherwise was received at the time or afterwards…that I can recall. 
I would say that there is an “implied contract” if he asked you. That is effectively commercial - even if there as no fee/reward/etc agreed for the job … or it could be argued that the fee was agreed as zero. But still falls more toward being commercial.
We’re fudging shades of grey a bit here.
It’s a line I straddled in Italy when a campsite owner asked if I’d take some pics/video for him. (I can’t specifically recall - the conversation may have been that I asked if he’d like some pics/vid.)
I did.
I asked for nothing and expected nothing. And that was the case until I went to check-out from the campsite and I was told there was nothing to pay.
At the time I was avoiding the totally crowded beach by hanging out at the campsite bar/restaurant and chatting to Michello - talking about the drone and what it could do.
1 Like
Is everyone missing the fact that she could take as many photos as she liked, then put them on Facebook/ social media site whereby farmer could then look at/download at whim ,?( and whose to know who is viewing them)
She has not sold them or been contracted to commercially!
My view would be no pfco needed, but who knows , CAA.
1 Like
If all that was arranged before the flight, the method of delivery makes not a jot of difference.
It’s all about the intent at the time the flight was undertaken … even if he says they’re totally crap and doesn’t want to use them or “pay” for them.
(Ask a wedding photographer about that one! )