Do you find 30fps better at removing judder?

Sorry if asked before.
Who’s using 30fps rather than 24/25 & do you find better results at removing judder when panning?
What would you say the pro’s & con’s are considering ‘most’ recordings are viewed on smaller screens & not your 55” 4K TV?

Does NTSC/PAL make that much difference or do you have to make sure 30fps is in NTSC?

There is no difference with digital P video … ancient analogue interlaced tech terms that have no relevance these days should have been abandoned years ago!

They seem to be used only for determining which FPS are available in the FPS options.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING is not the FPS that you record in, but that you ensure all aspects of your editing/rendering is done at the same (or perfect multiple/fraction*) FPS.

perfect multiple/fraction

  • if you shoot at 30/60 … do everything at 30/60.
  • if you shoot at 25/50 … do everything at 25/50
  • if you shoot at 24 … do everything at 24.
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Indeed I get the 180° principle & thanks for confirming what I thought about NTSC/PAL with modern tech/screens.
I was going to play with 30fps & some 60/120 slo-mo. Thinking the 30fps would blend better for some establishing shots rather than running the timeline / shooting in 24 & dropping the slo-mo into that. :man_shrugging:t2:

Incidentally, in the UK (and other countries using 25/50 fps broadcast TV systems) we tend to see quite a lot of the same juddering in OTA broadcast TV progs that are shot/created for international consumption … and hence are made at 30/60 fps.

This problem can also be seen if you are watching on your TV/laptop when the screen scan rates and connections between (HDMI) are not at multiples of your source … because so much tech is made for international use and based on 30fps.

Personally, unless there’s a good reason not to, I shoot everything at 30/60fps for one simple reason …

  • every camera I own can do multiples of 30fps (phone/DSLR/GoPro/MavicPro/etc - phone/DSLR do 30/60/120/240!), and some just can’t do 25/50/etc (my phones, mainly!) … so I know I can always combine video from any of them without issues.
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Do you find shooting 30fps all the time it effects 4K file sizes / edit speeds? I wouldn’t think it’d make that much difference but it has crossed my mind. Any latency issues appear elsewhere?

Sounds like you know your tv tech too :+1::wink:

Only because I started bumping into this issue myself some years ago and researched the problem … not from an professional experience/knowledge.

Compared to?

Obviously, at the same resolution and compression, 30fps contains 20% more data than 25fps.

Generally/Personally, I find little use for full 4k, and tend to use 2.8k/60fps on my (aging) MP to allow for some cropping and 50% speed slow-mo when editing if needed. I render (almost) everything at 1080p … it’s adequate for most things.
I think the only thing I’ve rendered at full 4k in the last year was a time-lapse of the comet, last summer, because I shot it at max res on my DSLR and the star detail justified the effort. Actually, it was even better @ 4k I discovered the other day … on someone else’s TV. My aging 1080 TV wouldn’t know what to do with so much info.

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Also - don’t forget - that file sizes are not only a consequence of resolution and frame rate … the level of compression is equally (potentially more) significant.

Many have issues with the efficiently compressed H.265, simply because it can cause an excessive burden on some hardware to decompress.

But it’s not difficult to create a clip of 8k video that’s smaller than the 720p version of the same clip … even at the same fps … if the 1080 is barely compressed at all, and max compression is applied to the 8k.

This is where data rate starts to become a more important factor (and indicator) … in conjunction with the resolutions and frame rate.
1080 at the same data rate as 4k may easily look better … because it’s not been compressed as much and therefore lost less detail.

Data rates are also a better indicator as to how much work your editor/hardware have to do when editing … and cause any issues with smoothness and rendering times.

Just compared to 24fps & yeh 25% increase on data I get that. My pc will handle it but if someone sees it on a lower res system I was wondering if it would defeat the objective.
Interesting you stick at 2.7k. I get that. I sometimes crop & track but I guess if 2.7 down to 1080 you can still do the same.
Cheers for the heads up Dave :+1:

Partly my reasoning for not bothering with 4k rendering. 99% of what I do is for fun … I’m not expecting it to be distributed globally to be shown in cinemas.
Plus it takes more time to render, an age to upload to YouTube (who then compress the bejesus out of it) for the vast majority to watch on a phone with greasy finger-marks on a screen protector that’s past its best.

For me it’s more the process of getting something to look how I want it to look.
If I can do that, then I know I could create the same in 8k if I had all the kit. But I don’t and nor am I likely to.

There is, however, one curious use of 4k with YouTube …
If you produce a video only with the plan to render at 1080, it’s a fact that if you then render the exact same video at 4k … purely to upload to YT … then the resulting playback of that YT at 1080 is actually better.

This relates to the fact that YT “mess with your video”, and their “messed with” 1080 replay of you 4k upload is better than their “messed with” 1080 replay of your 1080 upload. :man_shrugging:

Anyway - if I’m really worried about replay quality (that night sky with comet time lapse, for instance), then I use Vimeo. They don’t really seem to mess with what you upload very much at all.

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I’m am not seasoned in photography, film or drones but in my limited experience in the bright conditions I have filmed in I saw less panning judder at 30fps in 4k before I switched down to 25/24 fps after reading about cinematography but this is all in auto mode with out filters. I have switched back to 30fps for now.
Now the stupid wind has resided I’m also going to go down from 4K to a lower resolution and see what happens.
Though truly, I get that once you get filters and into manual mode results will change.

Curious as to how you can control the data rate / compression with DJI unless you mean in general. I’m on the Mavic 2 so the Go4 app.

Not tried H.265 yet. Still on .264 using DaVinci Resolve 17.2 so might need to have a play.

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You can’t when recording - but data rates are often quoted by cameras, including those on DJI drones … and often specifiable when rendering.

File properties will often quote them too.

What I was meaning, is, data rate at any given frame rate is often a better indicator of inherent video quality than claims of “4k video” … which on its own, in quality terms, really means nothing.

If you’ve not yet invested in filters but are going to, I’d recommend Polarising versions of the Natural Daylight (NDPL or sometimes called cinematic ND) rather than just ND as they offer better differentials & depth. The flare from reflections is reduced & the whites hold more ‘contrast’