Oh dear! Forestry Commission Scotland out of bounds?

That’s a bit ripe!

Do they not use a far larger number of chainsaws, etc., on their land far more often and over a far larger extent of that land … than could ever be envisaged by drones?

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They do indeed Dave, it’s absolute mayhem when they are logging.

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Stoppit Chris.

I’m currently awaiting a response from the Forestry Commission Scotland to a formal complaint I raised with them concerning their non-compliance with their obligations under the Scottish Outdoor Access Code/Land Reform Act in relation to drone use.

I’d submitted a FOI request enquiring as to how they had reached their position on banning all drones from FCS land, and the response that came back was very weak - pretty much saying that:

  • they had taken no internal or external legal advice in coming to their position;
  • ‘air-sports’ are the only aerial activity permitted by the SOAC;
  • and that the use of drones would disturb forest wildlife / other forest users / forest workers.

My argument that they are in non-compliance with their SOAC obligations is basically:

  • the term ‘air-sport’ is not defined in the Act or the Code, and using a drone is not a ‘sport’ in the dictionary definition of the term
  • I regularly liaise with Police Scotland when carrying out commercial flights, and on a number of times I’ve cited access via the SOAC. They have never told me this is not possible, or turned up to arrest me - so clearly drone use is permitted via the SOAC
  • a drone is neither a ‘motorised vehicle’ or ‘motorised vessel’ as defined in the Land Reform Act as being exempted from the access rights set out in the Act

Getting your PfCO won’t make things much easier - they normally want at least a month’s notice of any intention to fly on FCS land, and want to see a risk assessment/evidence of insurance.

A long response I know - but this is a current bugbear with me, and I’ll keep you updated on the outcome of my complaint.

If you are unhappy with the FCS current position regarding drones, you can always contact your local Access Officer at your local Council to register your displeasure, stating that you don’t beleive FCS to be in compliance with their SOAC obligations :wink:

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I wouldn’t worry. As long as you don’t take of and land on their land, they isn’t anything they can do… even if the Police are called due to being under resourced nobody will attend…

Potentially slightly different in Scotland …
Outdoor access code Scotland

Dave’s right Darren. The law is different in Scotland. On the face of it, the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (right to roam) sounds like a relaxation of laws and a good thing for everyone, however, it does give the Forestry Commission and others a great getout clause. I do believe they can rightfully ban flyover because of disturbing people / wildlife. I’m also interested in whether it would be a criminal or civil offence and what the penalties would be. Anyone have knowledge of penalties imposed to date?

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Well done for the detailed answer Dave. I like the FOI request. I agree totally that the SOAC should also be in favour of the responsible drone flyer, not always against us. I will put together a complaint as well.
Thanks.

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Not sure if you’ve come across this PDF on the net or in my other thread on SOAC.

PDF

Some good points in it that may aid your complaint

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Thanks Callum, that’s a very interesting paper. It’s not absolutely clear who Rob Garner is but I believe he is writing on behalf of SNH rather than FCS. It’s not quite factual in that I believe you can fly within 50m of a person “in your control” or a vehicle “in your control”.
Food for thought, though.

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Thanks for that Callum.

At the moment I’m waiting to see what FCS response is, and then will consider the next step. I’ve made my local Access Officer aware of the problem, so there’s that route to go down too.

Ideally this will be resolved in a constructive manner by FCS, or via interaction with the NAF / SNH :slight_smile:

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Ok is flying a drone a crime in law tbh I don’t think so then it would be a civil case that the landowner would bring against you as if you follow the drone code and take off away from the landowners property would the police/sheriff be able to arrest you?

But I could be wrong legal aspects are different in Scotland :scotland:

Treaspass perhaps? But I don’t actually know…

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Trespass law in Scotland is if you enter land with a firearm or hunting animal.
That’s a short version,I don’t think drones wherever mentioned

Definately sounds like your going about it the right way.

I suppose what comes out of it could have wider implications as far as SOAC is concerned.

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I hope so - it would be nice to have drone use clearly identified as a recreational activity/pastime in the SOAC.

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I’ve always thought that the term “drone” doesn’t do us any favours, what with the connotations of killing people remotely and the noise implications (droning on). I used to insist on calling it a quad or quadcopter but sadly the tabloids love the word drone.

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I agree, it doesn’t have a good vibe. We either need more positive drone stories, or maybe we should start calling them SUAs like the CAA does in the ANO. Personally, I quite like UAV or the NATs-used RPAS (remotely piloted aerial systems) :blush::+1:

Yes, indeed. I like a UAV, but then I’ve also got an ROV so I hope I remember which one to drop in the water!

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Why did I zoom in and try to find 2 people at it lol

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