VLOS (Again)

Questions & Answers
1

I was out yesterday with my mini 4 pro and did some video of a local but remote church.

It occurred to me that I could get it to do a circuit of the tower automatically (POI and all that). Now, hypothetically, suppose I did and set it off but, for a brief couple of seconds, it disappeared behind the tower before coming out the other side. Suppose, also hypothetically, I was in shot, on the ground, before and after it disappeared. The video, if I posted it on YouTube say, would show that for those few seconds I did not have VLOS. Would the police come after me?

It seems to me that the VLOS rule makes the capabilities of modern drones pretty superfluous.

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2

Probably not.

:person_shrugging:t2:

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3

They would need a mega floating custody suite if they came after everyone for breaking a little bit of VLOS.

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4

Weā€™re at a similar stage to when a man with a red flag had to walk in front of a motor vehicle :frowning:

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5

Iā€™ve found flying much more enjoyable since I developed the below thought process:

  • If I lose VLOS briefly, then this would need to be witnessed by someone who was aware of the requirement to maintain VLOS
  • Said person would then need to call the police and report the alleged ā€œcrimeā€
  • Said police force would then need to allocate resource away from violent crimes, burglaries or (most likely) paperwork to investigate a drone briefly being the wrong side of a church
  • Said police resource would need to arrive by the time I had used up any remaining battery and moved on

As you work through the list, the likelihood of each point gets more remote. Basically I have stopped overthinking and adopted a mantra @DazC has espoused a few times, ā€œdonā€™t be a d#%kā€. So far it has served me well :slightly_smiling_face:

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6

Daz is wise beyond his years :grin:

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7

If when you broke VLOS your drone caused an incident/near miss. Then you would probably get a visit. It does seem to be another of these poorly written laws where the public are held to account only when something goes wrong. Which in my opinion weakens the laws defense against all other types of crime as well as allowing ā€œdisgruntledā€ police to use the law as and when they see fit, instead of simply enforcing the law regardless of circumstance.

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9

A think a measure of common sense needs to be applied, the problem with common sense being that it blurs the boundaries of what is the exact legal behaviour required. As an analogy, suppose you are driving your car in traffic. The law not unreasonably requires you to look where you are going at all times, but this is not possible; you have to look away from the view ahead to check rearview & wing mirrors, or your speed on the instrument panel, warning lights, all sorts.

Applying this thinking to flying drones, then losing sight of a drone behind a tower for a second or so is similar to checking your speedo. Come to that, even when the drone is in full VLOS, you need to look away from it to check batterly levels, signal strength, &c on your screen.

The 5-0 will ignore all this, but if you do anything that damages a person or property, then their brief will bring a civil case against you and do his best to prove that you were flying negligently. Unless you have video of you clearly looking at the drone throughout the flight, he might be successful!

The 5-0 will respond to complaints, though, and this is where Karen comes in. Not much we can do about her, except maybe to gently point out that disturbing a pilot while he/she is flying an aircraft is itself illegal, and that so far as the CAA, who are the regulating body, are concerned, you are a pilot and your drone is an aircraft! Iā€™m lucky, Iā€™ve yet to encounter Karen, but my response to ā€˜Iā€™m calling the policeā€™ would be ā€˜Fine, please do, I want to make a complaint about youā€™.

If you fly sensibly within the spirit of the CAAā€™s Drone Code even if it is impossible to do the letter, you will be ok! You will have flight records to prove that you were within that parameter.

Drones are capable of far more range than the Drone Code allows; mine claims to be able to reliably recieve RC signal from 5 miles away (just within out & back battery range) and transmit video from 12 miles away! I could do this by FPV legally with a spotter, but the rules are that the spotter has to be standing close to me and be able to communicate verbally, so he is legally no good 5 miles away on the phone!

I canā€™t really see my drone properly if itā€™s more than about 150yds away, less if it is below the skyline (Iā€™ve lost sight of it at 20ā€™ at dusk against a dark background!). I can see it as a dot against the sky if itā€™s 400ā€™ above me, but if I glance away I have trouble relocating it. Paradoxically, I can see it at a greater distance at night with the aid of the Skytron Strobon light I can strap to it, probably up to half a mile in the right condtions of clear air and no ground light pollution. Does that count as VLOS? Taking it to ridiculous extremes, could I detect a reflected laser from a drone flying on Mars and claim that that is VLOS (Iā€™d probably get into trouble for colliding with a NASA drone, but Iā€™d be in the right because their drone is flying autonmously and not by VLOS)?

My advice would be to fly your drone where you can see it most of the time and donā€™t lose sleep over it going behind something for a second or so. If itā€™s going to be out of sight for longer than that, probably best not to fly it there!

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10

Only if you said some hurty words on social media, or criticised the government

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11

Donā€™t forget the coffee stop at Maccy Deeā€™s

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12

If this is a reference to Article 240 of the Air Navigation Order, that doesnā€™t apply to unmanned aircraft.

Fairly sure the way itā€™s supposed to go is ā€œinnocent until proven guiltyā€, whereas this would seem to be the polar opposite. If they had a video of you popping into Tescos whilst your drone was in flight then that would be a different matter.

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13

Bollocks

If you can change the settings in your app or frame a shot in the time it takes me to check all three mirrors and the dials in my car youā€™re deluding yourself.

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14

Not if you cannot tell the orientation

15

What are those mirrors actually for? :thinking:

Donā€™t forget Iā€™ve been driving an Audi for 3 years.

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16

Checking your hair and lippy (in an Audi)

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17

I learned that mantra in these very rooms :wink:

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18

Does it? Been a while since I had lessons and passed my test though. Being a safe driver requires you to be aware of conditions all around you, not just out the front. I call bullshit on that one.

ps, your last paragraph would have been sufficient.

pps, stop saying itā€™s ilegal to disturb a drone pilot, itā€™s not!!! Possibly dangerous to your health if you disturb me at the wrong time though :rofl:

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19

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

20

One kills thousands every year..

The otherā€¦

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21

Ex police officer here.

It would take some very peculiar circumstances for someone to note this brief interruption of line of sight and know it was a breach of the law. I doubt any officers would spot it in a video, itā€™s quite specialist legislation.

Iā€™ve had a number of minor offences reported to me over my 30 years by what we now call Karens. Some of them in very petty circumstances, very often where there is a preexisting dispute. I have always practiced and advocated a proportionate response. No action to be taken, gentle verbal advice where needed.

I canā€™t vouch for todayā€™s officers but the workload on them would hopefully get things like this written off at source as not a police matter or not meriting any action at all.

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