hi i posted a drone video of whitrope heritage centre and i got this nice facebook message from them “Bloody hell please take this down immediately as you don’t have our permission to do so & we don’t want tresspass on our sight like this as it is unlawful.
Sorry to be so blunt but this is not on.
Iain.”
i informed them i filmed from a public road and there centre was closed and also i followed the CAA rules. Am i breaking the law with this video, dji mini 2 was used
Add it to Drone Scene
I think Iain needs to review his way of communicating with people. I suspect the point that he is trying to get across is that he does not want it to seem like people can just go onto this site ( Trespass ) or draw too much attention to the site due to vandals etc.
There is a mini railway in a country park near me that is often being hit by vandals and theft. They now have more CCTV than a town centre to try and combat this issue they have and I guess that’s what his concern is about.
Just his communication skills a lacking
Other than that it looks like a fab place to visit if your into trains and nope I very doubt you broke any laws and you were very much within the rules of the CAA.
Just tell him its free advertising and suggest he might like to “buy you a coffee” and didn’t his mother teach him not to swear in public FFS! 
Hi i have deleted the video but uploaded a new version take out the name and location of museum. And if vandals can find it from that not my fault
But we know who they are … 
There’s no simple answer, and the law of trespass in Scotland is different to that in England and Wales as well.
Did you “break the law”? I can’t personally see anything which would cross that line, i.e. an offence in criminal law.
But were you trespassing?
In English law, almost certainly, in my view. It’s fairly settled case law that any intrusion into the space above your land is trespass, up to whatever height is necessary for the general utilisation and enjoyment of your private property. This is why you can cut off any part of a neighbour’s tree that extends above your land. It’s why the local council can’t build a road bridge spanning over your land without your permission.
Trespass is tort, not criminal law. You can’t be prosecuted, but you can, in theory, be sued. Even in the unlikely event that the landowner can identify you and get you into court, they have to show there was sufficient nuisance caused to interfere with their use and enjoyment of the land, if they want to actually get any damages.
Drone pilots enjoy a statutory defense against claims of trespass, via Section 76 of the Civil Aviation Act. That protects you against claims if the flight was “at a height above the ground which, having regard to wind, weather and all the circumstances of the case is reasonable”.
Was this a reasonable height to fly? You say the centre was closed. Are you happy for others to fly their drones in your back garden at that height if you are indoors, or are away temporarily?
That’s what it really comes down to - not whether it was legal (criminal law), or whether you could actually be sued (tort law), but whether you think this flight would be reasonable if it was your own private land.
PS: I trespass fairly regularly, both on foot and with my drone, I’m not saying “don’t do it”, I’m just saying don’t imagine that flying in accordance with the drone regulations is any kind of defence.
Hi thanks for your reply and other, just wondering about your reply, " But were you trespassing?
In English law, almost certainly, in my view. It’s fairly settled case law that any intrusion into the space above your land is trespass, up to whatever height is necessary for the general utilisation and enjoyment of your private property. This is why you can cut off any part of a neighbour’s tree that extends above your land. It’s why the local council can’t build a road bridge spanning over your land without your permission."
I am not great with law, but just wondering does that mean if you fly your drone in general about anyones land in England it could be classed as tresspass? So people who fly drones over a warehouse would that be tresspass? i thought that under CAA you are able to do this aslong as depending on drone mine at this time was mini 2. Also then health and safety, since there was no other human near me for at least 100meters, i would say that was safe. Also since there was no damage caused to anything on there land or else where.
Please do not think i am arguing just trying to understand.
hi found this article refering to scotland " You may need landowner approval. Although not certain, it is generally accepted that the use of drones for leisure (i.e. non-commercial) purposes fall within the scope of “recreational purposes” in terms of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 and are subject to the Scottish Outdoor Access Code. In that respect, landowners have very little power to prevent drone flying in Scotland.
Small aircraft, drones fall within the scope of the Civil Aviation Act 1982, section 76(1) of which provides that no action of trespass or nuisance may arise solely out of the flight of an aircraft over property (whether for commercial or leisure purposes).
This is subject to the flight being at a reasonable height and again complying with the drone code"
So the wording i am curious about is “reasonable height” cant find a legal height for this. However i think my video was within this term.
The vandals will know where it is, as will any criminals wanting to steal stuff, they dont need your drone footage. Your flight imho was perfectly legal. Tell them to bite yer shite. Another place on my bucket list when the weather improves.
Reasonable height is a height that doesn’t disturb or interfere with people’s day to day life. Did anyone hear or see your drone? Did anyone complain at the time? If they can’t hear your drone, I doubt they can see it either, so no disturbance caused.
nope only person there was me, also my dog but he was in the car sleeping.
We’ll never really know until someone tests this in court. Section 76 of the 1982 CAA Act was introduced four years after the Skyviews v Bernstein case. That case made clear that yes, trespass in air space is a real thing, but that a landowner can only take action if the flight was low enough to interfere with “ordinary use and enjoyment”. The case also established that the issue was about trespass, Skyviews being an aerial photography firm. It was not about privacy, which is a different thing.
The key point is that the CAA Act 1982 gives you a defense against accusations of trespass, but only if the height and circumstances of your flight are “reasonable”. That’s fairly easily managed simply by flying up high rather than down low. There’s no set height at which it becomes a problem. If it ever gets to court, the magistrate will need to consider what was reasonable. Personally, I think “would you want this in your own back garden” is a starting point for that, but that’s not a legal thing, that’s just me invoking Wheaton’s Law.
The drone regulations have nothing to do with trespass whatsoever, and are no defence against it.
I think in your specific case, if the landowner took someone to court for this, they might technically succeed on a claim of trespass, but it’s difficult to see that they’d get paid any damages, as they’d struggle to show it had cost them anything or caused significant nuisance (nuisance is a related form of tort, but usually requires the claimant to show it was prolonged or repeated).
This is a worthwhile read
@kvetner Tend to agree, but this is a public accessible place is it not, and therefore, IMO does not compare directly with your privately maintained property? I regularly take ground footage with my phone in such places, some when they’re open and some when they’re closed, as do millions of others. Nobody makes any mention of these pictures and video. I cannot see them pursuing anyone in court looking at the state of the place! 
I think the odds of any of this ever getting to court are close to zero, and I trespass pretty regularly without ever having had any issues with landowners.
I just wanted to push back against the idea that compliance with the drone regs is sufficient on its own, which it clearly isn’t. I don’t know about this particular place, but most publicly accessible land is privately owned and the law of trespass still applies, in principle.
For a private site where the public are allowed access, there are sometimes terms and conditions of entry, buried in small print, but with the general principle that the landowner can ask you (and/or your drone) to leave at any time - possibly with a refund if you paid to get in and there was no obvious rule against what you were doing. But that’s very different from hopping over a fence, or flying a drone over it.
This is the latest communication, i think we both agree the matter is closed
Bloody hell please take this down immediately as you don’t have our permission to do so & we don’t want tresspass on our sight like this as it is unlawful.
Sorry to be so blunt but this is not on.
Iain.
07:16
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Maybe it would be an option to come back to an ‘open day’ & film then which we could then upload to our own fb page ?
Thanks for your understanding on this matter.
I.
07:35
You sent
hi thanks for your heated comment. I was not tresspasssing i was on public highway. Your centre was closed, and i followed the CAA rules.
You sent
i am also seeking legal advice and if i have broken the rules i shall remove the video
08:01
You sent
the following photos may help you. Public road, your area. Then last photo your centre circled. There is no flight restrictions above you centre. There is one further south but since i was not flying there it does not apply.
You sent
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
It’s private property & you are flying directly above & into at low level without our permission.
Please do the decent thing & remove this.
Nobody has an issue with you flying roadside. We are a heritage site trying to run a heritage railway making some money from open days.
If people turn up, tresspass then we lose out on the income & they lose out on the full experience.
You sent
i cannot be held responsible for people tresspassing. i flew from public road and i did not tresspass. Also there was no other human i could have harmed,
You sent
as stated the drone is sub 250g, if the drone was above this weight limit yes i would not be able to fly.
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
You have flown into our private site & directly above our site without our permission when we are closed.
That is unlawful.
There are others that are asking me to ask you to remove.
Please accept our request & no hard feelings.
You sent
since you are accusing me of legal activity. I am very upset at this. I understand your concerns about vandals etc. But i shall remove this from facebook
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
From YouTube ?
Please do.
Arrange to come & meet me on a Saturday & we’ll have a cuppa, shake hands & you can film with our blessing & encouragement.
I.
You sent
i have removed this from facebook and youtube. But have uploadeded a new version taking out your heritage centres name and location. And not made any reference to location of this museum.
You sent
Train Museum. Scotland
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Oh come on you’re still flying directly above & into our site at low level without permission which is unlawful.
Please just remove & come along, prearranged when we are open & you can do a better version in our museum & down to the tunnel.
I will personally take you down the line to do the whole tunnel thing.
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Your footage from the roadside is good-just use that but leave out the directly above & into the site.
09:48
You sent
Thank you for your message, i will not remove the video, as i have not broke any laws. But since you say i have if you could tell me what part of law you are refering to i would be more than happy to look at it. It might help you to look at the CAA law which is civil aviation. Drones | Civil Aviation Authority
10:54
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Stop looking at the drone legislation & look at the trespass element of your content.
You have recorded images from within our private site & uploaded them without our permission or wish.
We’ve reached out to you to film better content with our assistance & blessing.
I don’t understand why you wouldn’t take up this offer.
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
A couple of mins of googling brings up that you mustn’t fly within 150m so it reads to me that even your roadside footage is not allowed.
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
You must keep try & keep yourself right.
11:20
You sent
sub 250g have different rules, which i have informed you of this previous.
You sent
i cannot take you up on your kind offer, since i am busy. But i thank you again for your input.
You sent
i refer you to court case Skyviews v Bernstein case
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
As you can’t demonstrate that you have the right to fly directly above & into our private site at low level without our permission then the legislation I have provided shows you are acting outwith drone regulations & again we ask you to remove your footage & invite you to film at your convenience with our blessing.
You sent
https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code/the_drone_code.pdf
register-drones.caa.co.uk
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
I won’t comment on your other content as I can only assume you sought their position to do so.
We’re a friendly bunch & I have went out my way this morning to try to navigate you through all of this & give you the opportunity to keep yourself right.
You sent
page 16 “You can fly small drones and model aircraft that are lighter than
250g at residential, recreational, commercial and industrial
sites.
Remember, you must always fly safely”
You sent
since area was closed no other human this would i class as safely. It is a shame because this may attract people to you and spend money with yourself,
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
It doesn’t say above or in.
The key word is ‘at’.
Please refer back to my previous msg where it clearly says ‘at least 150m away’ so all your footage would appear to be unlawful.
Please work with us.
You sent
sub 250g i can fly closed than 150m
You sent
sorry closer
You sent
as long as it is safe
Whitrope Heritage Centre replied to you
Whitrope Heritage Centre
When we are open & they can get the full experience, filming exciting content with our blessing.
Your content is none of the above.
I fear we may be about to go round in circles so (but 150m away 
).
Have a nice day & look forward to seeing you when we are open.
I’ll shout you a coffee.
After all the Borders is a small friendly place.
You sent
i am trying to help you understand the caa laws regarding sub 250g drones, yes you are correct if the drone was above 250g. But since the done is under 250g it can flyer closer to buildings than 150m. Also if i took of or landed on your land yes you are correct i could not do this either, but since i took of from a public area this is permitted
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Whitrope Heritage Centre
Sorry we believe you are wrong & have provided links.
Irrespective of this you don’t have our required permission to fly over our private property or close by.
I really feel this is the end of the matter.
If ignorance is bliss, Iain must be ecstatic
